Subject: tf
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:49:27 -0800
From: Maxim Boschert-Zielsdorf
(maxbz@slc.shorelinwednet.edu)
Organization: Paladin Productions
To: lsteven@webzone.net
>I feel that hate for Beast wars is misguided and you should understand
>that it is just a starting point for a new tf show
Hatred toward Beast Wars can never be misguided. I think if you had some
semblance of a love for Transformers (or an IQ) you would see that Beast
Wars is merely a bastardization of the Transformers we fell in love with
as kids.
In the first place anyone can see that Beast Wars is sooo not
Transformers. All the transformations have to do with hiding the robotic
parts under a animal-like shell, and that's just plain stupid. Hasbro
tried to use Kenner to do something that Kenner simply couldn't do right.
granted Kenner did some cool stuff back in its heyday, but they aren't
too good at making TFs. And you'd see that if you weren't so easily
blinding by the piece of cheese the corporations have thrown at you,
mousie. And that's what Beast Wars really is, it ain't transformers.
The big boys at Hasbro took a good idea, twisted it beyond all belief and
then tried to use it to capitalize on the Power Rangers market. Surely
you could see that, or were you too obsessed with that little scraplet of
transformerdom that Hasbro handed you?
And now for the show. The show sucks, alot. Anyone who would argue
against that saying "Well it is transformers and at least it's
something." is practically down there with the village idiot.
Remember the TF show we had when we were kids? Did that look anything
like Beast Wars, NO!! The show I loved for the longest time had plot,
moreso than Beast Wars shows where "predacons" and whatever they call the
autobot animals where all they do is fight it out until they have to get
back in their "protective animal shell". That's stupid.
What happened to the humans the autobots fought to protect? Where are
they in Beast Wars? The autobots never fought the decepticons simply
because they were there, no, they fought for survival and when they came
to earth they fought to protect the helpless humans. This is a much more
noble cause than to fight for the sake of fighting like in Beast Wars.
Secondly I'm sure you'll bring up the Reboot people and how good their
"animation" is. But they don't impress me. Where I saw an artist's
touch in the old TF cartoon, I only see an analytical mind's order in
Beast Wars. What's up with that? I'm not dissing on the Reboot people,
their type of skill is handy in architectural design and the like. But
they don't add any zeal to their "animation", and how can they? They're
drawing things in pixels, not with a pencil.
Look buddy, I don't know what planet you fell off of to even begin to
compare Beast wars to the original TF cartoon, but I take that as an
insult. TFs are almost a vital part of the latter half of our
generation. You can walk into any room almost anywhere and start
reminiscing about Transformers and almsot everyone there will remember
and start reminiscing with you. Even chicks aren't unfamiliar with
transformers, it was almost a defing moment in our history. So when you
go comparing that moment from my childhood with some low-grade,
no-flare-having, washout like Beast Wars, I take offence.
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 1997 4:20 PM
From: rblrider@carol.net
Subject:Re: anti beast wars
I CANT BELIVE YOU what in the world has happend to you people its no
different than machines, robots in disguise, there are no rules and no
boundries in the world of tranformers i have nothing against either i
do like the old ones better though if you find anything to be against
hate HOTROD it was because of him Optimus Prime died and he stoled the
matrix when Optimus gave it to Ultrimagnus that fiend well cya bye
You can't believe me? I can't believe you. Beast Wars is a far cry from
the old Transformers we know and love. If you want to get technical,
yeah it is still robots in disguise. But do you remember those cheesey
rip-off transformers-wannabe things we used to scoff at when we were
kids. Those were robots and they were disguised, albeit poorly. But by
your thinking they were just as good as Transformers were, and that's
garbage. Transformers weren't just about toy robots that could turn into
cars and stuff. They were many things to us. They were an idea, a story
full of characters that played a significant role in our childhoods. Not
just a bunch of robots that turned into cars...
Septimus seems to have dissapeared since he started the 97-98 year at college. That is also the reason there haven't been any letters added lately, since I haven't received any from him.
Well, it's April 30, 1998, and Beast Wars has just been slotted for 13
new episodes (third season already?). The show recently won an Emmy for
outstanding animation (the second time an award has been designed
specifically with one show in mind!). Beast Wars is the number one
syndicated cartoon show in the United States, and is just about as
popular in Canada. The line of Toys is also doing superbly, with an
increasing fan base, and sell-outs in Toys-R-Us, and other stores all
over the U.S.
All of this just helps to justify my beliefs that the majority of Americans today have no taste. Look at how popular Friends is! That's all the proof I need.
I found not only your webpage, but
your responses to letters not only amusing in their close-mindedness,
but stock full of ignorance. As a long-time Transformers fan, I
remember when THEY were the cheap rip-off of the Go-Bots (who, yes,
were in stores and on television before Transformers). The critics
tore Transformers apart, but look at what happened?
Actually, I'm pretty good with television dates, and although the Go-Bot toys came out before the Trans Formers toys in the US, the show did not premiere until a year after the Transformers show premiered (at the time only an episode per week).
As the show and
the characters were developed, people began changing their tunes.
Yes, I was hesitant to accept Beast Wars initially, but I have given
it time and have come to enjoy it a great deal. If you have bothered
to keep up with the show, as any intelligent critic should, you would
find an ever deepening plot that rivals anything from the original
series. It involves humans (though frankly Sparkplug, Spike, and
especially Daniel always annoyed me to no end), earth, the original
Transformers (the Ark, Ravage, Starscream, etc.), and a lot of
character development. So what about the names? Even in our society,
we find many people named after important or famous figures from our
history, so the "ridiculousness" of names such as "Megatron" or
"Optimus" is immediately thrown out. What about the merging of
organics and machinery?? I believe that, if one refers back to the
original series, there were many, many examples of this including
pretenders, headmasters, targetmasters, etc. That argument against
Beast Wars is invalid also, unless you plan on criticizing the original
series as well. It is insulting to all Transformers fans to have
such ignorance on display, whether it is at a website or elsewhere.
Sounds like you're mixing up the comic book with the TV series, I've always kept them seperate. The autobot ship in the cartoon was never refered to as "The Ark" in the TV series. Also, in the US, the TV series never made it past headmasters and targetmasters, and that was only 3 episodes. Pretenders, BTW, were always stupid.
If you knew more about fine arts, you would know one does not need a
pencil to be expressive - some of the most prominant works of art can
be found in a variety of media including photography, sculpture, and
yes, computer animation. If you knew more about computer animation,
you would find that a great deal of an artist's personality goes into
every scene, every facial feature, every movement of the character(s).
I hope at least, you have been watching Beast Wars regularly, as there
is nothing more idiotic than criticizing something you know nothing
about.
M. Klemann
(Speaking for myself, not Septimus Prime) Actually, as a graphic artist, pencilist, and yes, even someone who learned 3D animation in school, I find Beast Wars animation awful. They're not fluid, the motion looks choppy, the lighting sucks, they rarely show shadows correctly, and when they run it looks like they are floating accross the land. Oh, and the landscapes look bad too.
Subject: Transformers
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 16:32:52 PDT
From: "Loyal Predacon Tarrantulas"
Theres only one thing you said that I can agree with. Transformers the
movie will beat any beast wars stuff hands down. Well actually two
things. You said somthing about beast wars animation lacking. Well in
the first series it was, but it progressed every episode. Since you dont
watch the show, you are not aware of this, try watching the last episode
of this season, if you still think the animation sucks, then you have
some serious problems.
Well, actually, as of the episode I watched last week on KTLA, I thought the
animation was still not that good. There still is a major lack of shadows,
and some of the textures are too bloody shiny, which makes it hard to follow.
Character movement does seem to be getting better, though.
The old TF cartoon was ok when I was a kid, but now that I have beast
wars to compare it to, it just plain SUCKS. Beast Wars has better
character development, better writing, better everything. I have trouble
sitting through the old cartoon now. Its boring. Sure, I watch the movie
like once a week, but the movie kicks ass. There is big difference
between the show and the movie.
I'm not going to argue that the show didn't have some problems. The animation
varied greatly from awesome to just plain horrid, not to mention the occasional
mis-coloring of certain Decepticon jets. However, there were some truly splendid
episodes, and the storyline was much better after the movie. (I'll probably get
yelled at some people for that remark.)
And as for the toys, I really dig the old toys, and I have a ton of
them. I always hear people saying all this crap about wanting them to
rerelease the old toys, and not this beats wars crap. HELLO! They did
rerelease the old stuff, it was called gen 2, and it flopped cause it
sucked. They did them in all the wrong colors.
Yeah, but when they did re-release the originals, they ruined them (as you noted).
Not only did they repaint them but they replace many parts with cheaper, soft plastic
(like the stuff in Beast Wars and even some of the later GI JOE (not extreme) figures).
Who are you people to put a leash on Transformers anyway? You cant say
that they arent part of the old tf's cause they are integral to the tf
universe. The old Transformers are still around in Beast Wars, Star
Scream even made an appearance in an episode for christs sake. But hey,
if you dont like it, it's your opinion, it just means more beast wars
for those of us with a brain. You and all your Zombie Bot transformer
fans who dislike beast wars can go melt into a pile of slag.
To me, Beast Wars is something totally different from TransFormers.
Hasbro/Kenner should have brought them out as a different entity instead
of using the TransFormers brand name to help bring interest in. You're
right, it is my opinion, and the opinion of many others.
-Tarantulas-
ps: Hahahahahahahehehehee! Your from Oklahoma!!
No I'm not, I came down here for school, then got a job, and look forward to leaving ASAP.
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:59:27 -0400
From: Adam Alexander Cierniak
1. You're not going to convince anyone who already likes the show not
to watch it anymore, so your efforts there are pointless.
I'm not trying to stop people from watching it, I'm just saying it sucks.
2. You might convince someone who had never seen the show to abstain
from it if your arguments were a little more eloquent than: "The show
sucks, alot"; and "All of this just helps to justify my beliefs that the
majority of Americans today have no taste."
Then read the other lines, you know, the ones with the long sentences.
Oh, and nothing to argue my "no taste" line citing "Friends" as proof?
3. By virtue of the fact that the Beast Wars show need not cling so
horrifically close to the demands of the toy manufacturer, the show
benefits from this freedom and actually is better written than the
original cartoon. Or would you actually dispute the fact that the
original cartoon was at times little more than one long toy commercial?
I point to the Transformers comic and Simon Furman's disgust that he was
forced to sacrifice story in favor of introducing all the new characters
the toy company demanded he did.
By that virtue, why didn't they just come up with a new toy/show, and not have
to use the TransFormers brand? Who knows, I might not dislike Beast Wars as much
if they had introduced it as something other than TransFormers.
4. Did someone try to violently force you to enjoy the show or the
toy? Where is this All-American spite coming from? Who put a gun to
your head and said, "Forget about 'live and let live'?" To spend your
time on such a counter-productive venture...I actually feel pity for
you.
Actually, I was sitting around bored while trying to think up something that
would make my TransFormers page more interesting. I figured the debate between
classic TF's and BW seemed to generate alot of conversation on the net, so what
the heck. I spent the whopping 5 minutes to write up the page, and the rest is
history. I think it's quite entertaining.
Oh, and rather than pity, I feel much more like laughing.
Subject: anit-beast wars? moron
Date: Thu 8/13/98 11:06 PM
From: evilash@vallnet.com
You truly are a moron.
Well let's get things started off on a bad note, how....predictable...
Never before have I seen such an uneducated
opinion.
Read your own.
Beast Wars is a great thing... the toys, the show, the
characters, all of them. Just because it isn't cars and airplanes DOES NOT
MEAN that it isn't good... anyone that says that is a prick.
It's good to see we're backing up our points and not making any wild
accusations without support, truly, it is you who are the moron.
You didn't
even give it a chance...
Oh really? Do you keep tabs on me regularly? Well hate to inform you,
but your sources couldn't be more wrong, I watched it right up until it
was canceled in both the areas I generally reside in. Yes canceled,
because it pulled in absolutely no ratings whatsoever. Hmmm, odd that,
since as you say it is one of the greatest shows ever.
as much as I like G1 Transformers (even more than
Beast Wars),
Well at least you have some semblance of taste.
I am intelligent enough to realize that the Beast Wars show is
10,000 times better in all ways.
Most unfortunate for you....
Superior animation (the CGI is
beautiful),
The CGI is alright, it's definitely nice to look at for a while, but
alas there is no real flare in artistry there. In other words it tends
to get little boring after more than a few shows.
better sound, and, best of all, BETTER STORIES. Yep, you
heard me...
Oh please! From all the shows I have seen the characters are as
two-dimensional as the show.
I don't give a damn about your opinion on BW stories, they are
better.
Well if you don't give a damn then why did you bother writing me? If my
opinion is worthless to you, you shouldn't be wasting your time. But
the sad and simple fact is you are, which only gives more pathos to my
argument...
The best television show I have EVER seen was The Agenda (parts 1,
2, and 3).
Don't watch much television then, do you?
I skipped 7th period every afternoon so I could get home and
watch it...
Let me give you a word to the wise, don't skip school, it's bad.
Already our society suffers from a lack of culture in ALL ways, take
what little school offers you.
there were so many twists and turns in the plot, everyone was
betraying everyone else... EVEN cameos of the original TFs!!!
Oooh!!! Is it the vaunted appearance of Starscream and Unicron every
one of you mentions to me. Put yourself in my shoes for a moment, as
the appointed writer for this section. I have been hearing the same
arguments from you people for quite literally YEARS!! Your arguments
are as follows: CG animation is better; my reply: it's certainly
flashier, but better...no/stories are better; my reply: show me and
perhaps I'll agree with you....and yet there is no answer for this one,
just usually some punk cussing (which is quite easy btw, and I'll
guarantee you I'm better at it than you are, so don't start)/ then let's
say I find one of these pearls of truly great writing, and y'know what?
It is better than your usual Beast Wars fare, but it still isn't that
great. Then their arguments go on to state that the toys are better; my
reply: ARE YOU BLIND?!!! The toys have parts and arms and legs sticking
out of everywhere in "beast mode" and aren't much better in robot mode/
And nowadays the arguments have changed somewhat to: The show has gotten
alot better; my reply being: But wasn't the show just SOOOOO great
before? To which they refuse to answer. And now the final thing that I
have had to read time and time again from you people is the whole
"ORIGINAL TF CAMEOS". This is so ridiculous!!!! One damn cameo and you
all act like it's a sign from the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF!! GET A GRIP!!!
STOP BORING ME TO DEATH WITH THE SAME LAME_HORSE ARGUMENTS, THAT IN THE
END YOU PEOPLE DON"T EVEN PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR!!! Just once there was a
fellow who did provide such arguments, to which I conceded many of my
points to, but being the good sport he was, he also conceded many of his
points when he recieved my counterargument. That is debate people, work
it out.
How a true
Transformers fan can reject Beast Wars is beyond me... it is a great and
wonderful thing that deserves just as much credit as the original.
No, the original was groundbreaking, never before had america seen such
a thing. Beast Wars is just rehash, with a few new bells and whistles
attached like CGI, and the like. If you buy every little piece of
cheese the corps throw out I fear for our earth's future.
You should watch it some time with an open mind... you may just surprise yourself.
Well listen here, almighty one. I have watched it with an open mind, I
wanted the show to be good, but I was sorely disappointed. And next
time let's skip all the bits with you putting words in my mouth, after
all I don't know where your hands have been, heheheheh...
From: prplrose@cia-g.com
Subject: anti-beastwars society sucks
Date: Mon 8/17/98 8:50 PM
To answer your final question first; I could say anything and topple
your weak arguments. How's that suit you?
I like Beast Wars, and you think the Beast Wars is a cheap rip off of the original Transformers. Hello, is there a brain in there?
Indeed, and one suited to this sort of thing.
The Idea of Beast Wars came from the developers of Transformers.
Actually Transformers was a basic collaboration between a japanese
company, hasbro and Marvel. All Hasbro did was handle the toy
distribution over bere in America. Well to be truthful I should give
Hasbro more credit, they did have the foresight to employ the talents of
a variety of Marvel comics writers. Hence why the old characters were
so much more detailed. So in truth the original developers were the
japanese company and Marvel comics, neither of which had any part of
Beast Wars. Sorry to burst your bubble, makes yor insult look pretty
damn stupid, now doesn't it?
And futhar more, you claim Beast Wars is dis-respecting the Transformers, umm then why are dis-respecting Optimus Prime's name? Septimus Prime?
Well whether you watched the cartoons or read the comics you would know
Prime is a title for the Autobot leader and carrier of the Autobot
Matrix of Leadership (an eiditic memory has it's pluses). So all I did
was adopt the title. Septimus, much like Optimus, IS LATIN!!!! Work it
out!!! It's not that freakin' hard!!!
I think you owe Optimus a apology. So there! You people suck.
Ooooh noooo!!! I think I'm gonna cry. Get real!
Hasbro didn't twisted a good idea, they simply made a new idea from an old one, and, did you notice that the Beast Wars toys are selling?
No, from what I've seen, FIRSTHAND, it DOES NOT SELL!!!
And the show is popular, the fact of transforming cars and jets are out.
Okay, thank you for informing, Ms. Ad Exec, since you know all about
market potential....please...
Generation 2 proven that.
Gen 2 was a piecemeal attempt at best, and as we all know any piecemeal
action are doomed from infancy...
So they took a high risk chance, and did something different. Sure I liked the G2's, but I like the Beast Wars better. So what are ya going to say to that?
See above!
(Oh and be sure not to enter into an infinite loop of this message, I
know you're a little slow, so the see above part only applies
once...heheheheh...)
Septimus Prime,
Yes? Oh I see you've accidentally written your grovery list to me...oh
wait!...that's an argument isn't it? With all those number-bulleted
paragraphs I almost didn't notice that you were indeed trying to
construct an argument. Well let me be the first to inform you that
outline looking arguments don't really fly in the real-world, keep in in
middle school, pal!
1) Why do you really care about getting rid of Beast Wars? What did Beast Wars do to you to make you wage a gigantic war on it, you kicking and screaming and pounding and basically making yourself look like an idiot?
Oh I'd say I've expounded on the subject enough in the many e-mails I
have responded to, but then again I get the feeling you didn't bother
READING the page before you ACTED. It is indeed you, who are the fool
for acting without contemplation.
Let's see... (I'm a phsycic, now, don't disturb me) I'm getting something... I'm getting something.... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!! (If I'm wrong, please tell me.)
First off, you're not psychic (if that is indeed what you meant to say,
what the heck is phsycic?!!!) and secondly you're wrong. Happy? No, of
course not!! Now you're going to go on and on about how I have no idea
what Beast Wars is like and how it's so cool. It really is ridiculously
obvious that you didn't bother reading any of my earlier responses. Or
you simply haven't the mental capacities to retain the points within
those arguments. So which is it, please end the suspense?
2) Quite a few times you have announced that the Beast Wars Cartoon sucks. One of the reasons, you say, is that the animation is crap. If the animation is such crap, then how did Beast Wars get an award for the best animation of the year?
Well as the owner of this page and personal friend of mine pointed out,
the AWARD WAS CREATED FOR THE SHOW!!!! If you doubt this, think!! How
many other shows are completely computer animated? NONE!!! And if you
say Reboot, I'm going to shoot you for your sheer stupidity. As we all
know Reboot is made by the same people. Sooo, since you're so slow, let
me spell it out for you.... If they give the award to one show or the
other, the makers STILL get the award!
And how can you criticize Beast Wars animation, When your Transformers animation was just plain super-****?!
Oh please! You're the worst at this. How can you make such an
unfounded statement? We are arguing and counter-arguing, I won't
respond to something unless it has sufficient evidence to support the
point. This line obviously lacks that. Look maybe you should just save
us both the trouble and go back to school, learn something and then look
me up if you manage to make any headway, heheheh....
Also, the Transformers had no character build-up, stupid plots, and a Megatron that sounds like he just had his tonsils removed!
Again with your worthless points that you neglect to back. Well just to
be nice, I'll actually go out of my way to respond to this point. The
Transformers characters were created by Marvel comics, who as we all
know makes believeable characters. In fact, that's their business. So
on this claim I'm afraid you're just wrong!!!
3)Why does Beast Wars suck so much, anyway? You haven't given any reasons for your deduction except "It isn't Transformers", and how does that make Beast Wars suck? If everything is dumb if it ain't Transformers, then hey! You just insulted yourself!
Look pal, my points AND BACKING ARE WRITTEN ALL OTHER THE %$^@#$&ING
PAGE!!!!! Maybe if you even pretended to read them you'd realize that.
And you'd also realize how stupid you look. Since third grade reading
comprehension they taught most of us (well obviously not you) to read
the whole bit through before we respond. Simple, eh? Try it sometime,
it'll work wonders for your writing skills (well obviously not yours,
for that you need to relearn everything and therapy probably couldn't
hurt either).
Withh this kind of crap, no one's gonna join your side. ( No one with a brain, that is.)
You have the mentality of a child, how old are you anyway? Let's think
about this, in real life, which is what most of us (well obviously not
you) live in, THERE ARE NO SIDES!!! There is a wide spectrum of
opinions, from which we either choose to ignore or learn from. This
isn't Real World: Beast Wars, where you either join the Maximals' side
or the Predacons' side, this is reality, work it out....
5) You said that you might not hate Beast Wars so much if it hadn't been introduced as Transformers. Well, what would it have been introduced as? Super Barbies From Venus? I can see it now. The Maximals, (Optimus Primal (Barbie) and his( Or would it be her?) friends) trying to stop the evil Predacons, (Megatron (Ken) and his friends (and girfriend, Black Arachnia)) from talking on the phone for hours. Oh, I'm sure that would be a grrreeeeeaaaat idea. NOT! It couldn't be introduced as Gobots, because Gobots are one of Tonka's creations, and also, Gobots are just to unpopular, and Hasbro needed To get Beast Wars to super-success level quickly, and Transformers seemed to be the perfect choice.
Waitasecond!! I've heard that moronic argument before.... I know
you!!! YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!! The last time I wrote you, I never received
a response. Couldn't handle the truth in my argument, eh? Well it
looks like you took sometime to come up with some new points, and
they're still stupid!!! Please spare me another message from you, I'm
afraid you're going to diffuse my brain away from me.
P.S. Your page, Dare: The Touch, sucks. Make it better.
It's my friend's, and I think it's better than alot of that other
worthless tripe out there. What other page has an open forum to discuss
the raging Transformers are better than Beast Wars debate, NONE!!! It's
ahead of its time, in that it incorporates an intellectual forum into
it. But you wouldn't understand what an intellectual forum is anyway,
so it's wasted on you.
Let's recap your argument:
Septimus Prime, you're dumb! Beast Wars is so cool!! You're an
idiot!!! Sure you tried to come up with reasoning, but since you didn't
back any of it, it's meaningless! So alas you argument is distilled
into mindless drivel.
As for my page, it's called The People Against The Malefactor (and
that's not male-factor for you geniuses out there, it's
malefactor...look it up) and it isn't up yet because I've just started a
new semester and don't really have time to work on it yet. And you're
forbidden to visit it, because you're stupid and stupid people wouldn't
get it.
Ahhh...you reacted just as I thought you would.
Of course I did, I've had much practice with your kind, my friend. I
know exactly what I'm doing, that's what you seem to be confused about.
You're exactly where I want you, well not exactly. I knew you would
react aloofly to my last message. Do you swordfight, any? If you do,
then you must now realize exactly what I've done, you've now
overextended your thrust, left yourself open, so to speak.
I can easily understand how you think I would react that way, so many on
the net would've reacted exactly as I did. Don't you realize that I
deal with every sort of person on the net daily, in many manners? Do
you think I'm new to this or something?
As usual, you still lack any credible evidence and your vehement response shows you have NO basis for any of your claims.
Actually, I'm sorry, but I have to correct you here. This whole
argument is based on a value judgement, more or less. So as far as
credible evidence goes, none exists. Surely yes, you can refer to items
in the Transformers universe, but to what end? Exactly, you're right
back to square one, a value judgement. What it all cmes down to are
likes and dislikes, nothing more. Don't make this more epic than it
really is. And as far as your earlier points....
1. The Actual Figures: I assume your talking the splicing of animal/robot here. This is not far removed from Generation 1 canon at all. If you really knew as much as you say, you would remember the episode "Dweller in the Depths" which featured the trans-organics. If I remember correctly, they were ORGANIC and ROBOTIC. Now, is it so hard to imagine that technology, some 300 years later, evolving into Beast Wars?
Actually, this was never a point of mine, you just made that up or
completely misunderstood me. But hey, whatever floats ya....as far as
this point, why would I make it? The first hints of animal/robot
combinations were evident in the Dinobots, one of my favorite parts of
the Diaclone era. They paved the way for more Transformers to have an
animal shift-mode. Later it went onto the Predacons and whatnot.
What I said, in fact which you have ignored once already, is that the
problem with the Beast Wars toys is in the general design. The original
Transformers in "machine" mode (for lack of a better term) hid any hint
of robotics totally. Beast Wars toys, however, make no real, concerted
effort to hide various appendages in "beast" mode. For example,
Dinobot's "beast" mode has both legs and feet sticking out of the
Raptor's chest. Looks very tacky. It's almost as if they aren't even
trying anymore. Secondly, Primal's new Beast mode also has various boxy
joints protruding from an ergonamic (sp?) ape's body. How is this even
remotely aesthetically pleasing? Simple, it's not. Secondly, a similar
problem occurs in robot mode for the Beast Wars toys. Take ,for
example, Rattrap's robot mode. While the Rattrap figure does a better
job of hiding the robot's appendages in "beast" mode, it obviously pays
the price for this in its robot mode. The "rat" aspect simply seems to
hang off the robot's back. Very poorly designed, in my opinion.
Rattrap is a very extreme example of my point, but important
nonetheless. Another example being the new Megatron figure. From what
I have seen of the figure, the dinosaur head serves as one of his hands.
Now all of the above is MY point. If you choose to dispute it, then do
so. But do not, however, accuse me of saying something that I've never
said. It really is bad form on your part.
I can, however, guess at your counterargument. A point I'm almost sure
you'll make is that of the older Transformers' removeable appendages.
Yes, they did indeed have removeable pieces, such as hands and vehicle
accessories. However to this I must retort that they are indeed quite a
bit older. What I mean to say is that they were created more than a
decade ago, therefore they did not have the advantage of more than a
decades' worth of experience in design and new technologies. And I do
believe that technology applies to almost all aspects of modern society,
including toy manufacturing (it is indeed, just a factory after all).
And were the older toys to be redesigned (by their original makers, of
course), they could easily remedy most of those design flaws. So in
effect any argument of that nature would be totally fallacious, you see.
Back again to your point...
If you really knew as much as you say, you would remember the episode "Dweller in the Depths" which featured the trans-organics. If I remember correctly, they were ORGANIC and ROBOTIC
Again another point that I have never made, but you seem to think I
have. And I will tell you why I wouldn't make this point. I'll assume
from your stated credentials that you have indeed read the Generation 2
comic series, a fine and excellent series I might add. In the creation
of Transformers they used a process much akin to cellular mitosis (well
it's actually quite a bit different than mitosis, but for the sake of
this argument that is wholly unimportant), an ORGANIC process. To
bolster this, reread that issue and examine closely the first
transformer. He emerges from what appears to be a chemical soup, and he
is black and grey. Remember what Prime looked like when he died? Of
course that's totally a fanboy point, but my point is that it's not hard
to imagine Transformers as some kind of organic species already. So
subsequently why would I argue that robotic and organic cannot merge?
This one's easy, I never did.
Now, is it so hard to imagine that technology, some 300 years later, evolving into Beast Wars?
Funny, I was under the impression that Beast Wars takes place before the
original Transformers saga. As the show was cancelled in my area long
ago, I can't be for certain. But from what some people have told me the
Beast Wars' teams come across the Ark long before the inhabitants awaken
and begin the original show. Am I wrong in assuming that? I haven't
seen the episode, so I can't be for certain.
I was, however, hoping you would at least give some support to that nonsense you so like to spout.
To what end? I'm not writing a paper. Your opinion, as most are, is
adamant. If I honestly believed I could change your opinion, I might
feel the need for grounds and evidence. But you seem pretty set in your
beliefs, so don't ask of me to go out of my for nothing.
First, who looks the fool? Answer, you.
Well in the first place, this is for our audience to decide. Since
neither of us will admit to being a fool and both will accuse the other,
we must leave it to an arbitrary, non-biased group. Since you seem to
pride yourself on your argumentative skills, this would only make
perfect sense, yes?
How? Your comments are rude and groundless, mine are at least civil.
I must disagree thoroughly here. While I am no angel, but I must insist
that you do not make yourself out to be a heavenly host either. Let me
point out a few of your quips to refresh yor memory...
I must say your lack of insight is sad.
your insane stand
sad, to point out your ignorance.
Like I said, I'm no angel and I have been certainly much nastier than
you, but don't mistake yourself a saint. Whether it is one sin or many,
you are still a sinner. So let us not mince words, we both have every
intention of being assholes to each other.
And as far as removing those quotes from your original message, they're
not out of context, the attitude remains the same. You know what you
said, no sense in wasting time over such small items, yes?
As a "pseudo-intellectual", I at least comprehend TF mythology,
Ah, I see there is at least one point we agree on. Good to see we agree
on the mythology aspect. You're actually quite a respectable
argumentative opponent, I rather enjoy talking to you. But on with the
message...
and don't limit it to past marketing trends.
I gather you;ve gone back and read alot of the webpage again? Then
surely you noticed I only briefly touched on the marketing trend. And
that point has a strong foundation, because in the end Hasbro is a
functioning business and they will do what they think the market will
accept. I'm sure you have a basic grasp of the business world, so
there's no need to explain the obvious to you.
Onto another of yor points...
Throughout G1, all TFs faced major energy problems, even in the cartoon. If you followed the comic, that is why Micromaters were introduced, to conserve energy. Just take that a step further, what uses less fuel, a gestalt made up of six energon guzzling vehicles or a gestalt comprised of three organic/robotic creatures? You do the math. G1 TFs could in no way make use of biomass materials, they were strictly energon based. Beast Wars TFs can use biomass, and consume living prey(RE: Terrorsaur's tech specs).
Sorry, but again I've never argued to the contrary. I realize, as most
do, that the lack of energy was a convention to carry the story.
As last time, I could be wrong in this area, but isn't the problem in
Beast Wars too much energy?
As for lives, that is irrelevant to this debate and further adds to your inability to stay focused.
I needn't explain this to you, you know what I've done I'm sure and you
must now know why, yes?
I'll stick to the point at hand. my points, by virtue of your lack of defense, must remain valid.
Of course they are, well 1 and 3 (why again did you number them?) are.
Number two on your list is not, but I have pointed that out in my
oh-so-subtle reply. Number two on your list is based on a flase
assumption on your part, you misread the e-mail in question.
I am a little disappointed, I thought I would get at least a rise out of you, not some idiotic tirade about philosophy or intellectual schools of thought which you seem to know nothing about.
That's funny, above you say it was exactly as you expected, but now you
say the contrary. Perhaps I'm giving you too much credit. Had you
actually expected what I did in my first reply, I would've thought you a
great deal smarter than most of those I deal with. Guess I was wrong,
wouldn't be the first time I've given someone too much credit. I
actually believed you picked up on what I'd done, oh well on with it...
After I finished laughing at your pitiful response, I searched THREE times for a single shred of evidence to back your ignorant claims. Sadly, none could be found.
Of course not. The initial e-mail was full of sound and fury and
nothing else. It's purpose was to get you to write back quickly (I'd
say I was successful, you wrote back the same day) and cause you to
overextend yourself. And in the latter regard I feel I have also been
successful. Look at all these wide holes you've left in both your
argument and your pathos. A mistake you should learn from, my friend.
Should you ever face anyone with any caliber they will use all sorts of
tactics that you seem to be unaccustomed to. Don't go into politics, my
friend, you wouldn't last a second.
THREE TIMES?!!! You waste far too much time on this crap. Sorry but
I've more pressing concerns in my life. I've already wasted fifteen
minutes on this one message alone and that's only because I'm enjoying
myself.
Finally, I actually have a request to ask of you. My web site is nearly complete, and I would love to post your letter on the editorial section along with my response. If you do not want me to, I will respect your choice. I know many "pseudo-intellectuals" who would get a real kick out of your ignorance. Oh, if you ever wish to back your claims, let me know, otherwise, get a clue.
I would rather like you to post my e-mail, however you must post ALL of
them. That means up to and including this one. And I will have my
friend do the same with his webpage, although I think I've lost my first
reply. Perhaps you could send it again to me. I own no computer so
this sort of thing happens alot for me.
My boy, you've got alot of heart and that's respectable. But in the end
your arguments were never contrary to mine. In fact the first one was
so obscure that I've never even thought of addressing that particular
point. Anyway, goodluck, godspeed, and may Grandfather Coyote smile
upon all your endeavours.
I must admit, you provide some good points, and the clarification helps. Indeed, it really is a value judgement.
That's basically how I see it.
I may disagree with some of your points, but I believe you do provide a good debate on such things. (I have similar feelings about Action Masters).
Well we're all going to disagree when it comes to things of this nature,
such is life.
As far as TF history goes, I guess it is all up to the individual.
Well, while I'm loathe to admit it, the TF universe is just full of
inconsistencies. I really love it and all, but it;s far from perfect.
Anyway, I hope you did nmot take any of these things too personally.
Man, don't sweat it. Trust me, all in all, you've been considerably
civil to me, and I've been far worse to you. If anyone should be
apologizing, it should be me. So in the spirit of accord, I'm sorry for
that first response it truly was over the line.
By the way, I would like to post the entire exchange on my site.
Feel free. I'd like to do the same....with your permission, of course.
In addition, if you ever feel you have some spare time, maybe you could write an editorial style letter about your feelings and your supporting points, you provide a good counter argument.
Thanks. I might, if I get the time. But lately, my classes are running
me ragged, I don't have time for much, not even keeping my social life
healthy.
Let me know what you think, my page should be done in about three months, and you would be given complete credit. No hard feelings...
Sounds cool with me. No hard feelings here. Just e-mail me your page
address when it's all done, so I can check it out. Should be
impressive.
Cya when I cya...
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